We were starting to discuss this topic in this thread click me about Thanksgiving so thought it would make an interesting topic for discussion in a thread of its own.

I have a very keen interest in Native Americans but really only limited knowledge. When I think about the history of the US and the the celebrations, it also makes me think of the people that were there first. They are almost forgotten.

I would love to hear your thoughts and knowledge about this subject.

I don’t know much either but would love to hear about them as well.

Thanks for opening this thread.

Thanks Alicia!
I wonder if there is a teacher amongst us who teaches Native American history. That would be awesome!

Christian’s major is American history, she is a great enthusiastic teacher, i am sure she would provide us with some information about that.

Thank you abdul :)

We live in an area that was the home of the Cherokee nation for many years, before the Trail of Tears. The first capital of the Cherokee nation is about 12 miles from where I now live (New Echota) and the county I live in is called “The Home of the Cherokee.” A few months ago I joined the Trail of Tears Association because of all the historical information that is available.

Wouldn’t it be great to have someone who could teach the Tsa-la-gi language? (That’s the Cherokee word for “Cherokee.”)

Thanks for the information Tony!! Very interesting and yes, would love someone to be able to teach us Tsa-la-gi!

That was my first lesson I reckon :)

Great topic, Debbie!

Unfortunately I don’t know much about the Native American culture either…. In my American Studies course, the professor only briefly touched the Indian issue, giving us some horrifying figures of the estimated population before and after the European colonisation….

At my Faculty, we do have an assistant professor who is a specialist in Native American Studies, but unfortunatelly she’s on a scholarship in the States this year and I don’t think I’ll have any courses with her….

Something that I can, however, share with you is a very interesting poem that we’ve analysed last year as an example of Postcolonial literature: Diane Burns’ poem Sure You Can Ask Me a Personal Question I love how it points at the inevitable clichees that the imagined interlocutor has, and, despite its apparent simplicity, it is very though-provoking…. Hope you like it! :)

@ Sandra – I like the poem very much and as you said it is very thought provoking.

I’m sure we could talk more about this on the Thanx Party if we get along to doing it.

Glad you likedd it, Alicia! :)

Here is the link to the National Trail of Tears Association. You may find some items of interest there.

Ack! It would be good to actually include the link, wouldn’t it???

http://www.nationaltota.org/

This is all terrific! Sandra, great poem and Tony, I am reading your resource now!

@Enrique. It would be good to discuss at the Thanksgiving party!

That is a great link, thanks, Tony! :)

@Debbie…..it’s great that you started this thread. I just wanted people to understand the “true” story behind Thanksgiving. In American school, we are led to believe that the “Indians” and Pilgrims had a nice and peaceful gathering exchanging food with each other. Supposively, this is what started the Thanksgiving tradition. I question if this really happened or not. The “white” man came to the land of the Indians and stripped them bare. They forced them to leave their homes, and tortured and massacred them. They tricked them into believing that they were good people, and once they gained the Native’s trust, they took took everything they had. They created conflict between different tribes within the Native American community and used it to their advantage. The stories are endless!

I think what is taught in American schools isn’t as naive anymore on the subjects of Thanksgiving, Columbus, Native Americans and so on. It’s been a long time since I’ve been in school, so I made sure I checked with my cousin about this….she is a teacher and is much more aware of what is in texts now. The texts and what is taught in public schools are more factually based and more balanced. Much better for the kids!
I hate to see American education brushed with such broad negative strokes here, mostly by Americans! : ) As with everywhere in the universe, there is no black and white answer to any question.

@ Susan….I can only speak from my experience. I was a Public School Teacher (High school & Middle School) and now I am a Preschool Teacher. A lot of the veteran teachers still teach the same old Thanksgiving story….Not everyone has gotten the memo….you’d be surprised. You still have teachers that read their children stories of little bunnies dressed up as “Indians” having a nice Thanksgiving feast with smiling Pilgrims! Especially in the younger grades, teachers are hesistant to give the REAL story because children are so accustomed to the “Happy Thanksgiving” stories their parents tell them. Rather than providing them with a more accurate account, teachers bite their tongue and choose to continue to pass on this false legacy. This is only from my experience….I’m sure there are plenty of teachers out there who are great and more up to date!

Thanks so much for this input! I really need to study more on the subject. This has motivated me :)

It’s good that we are all more aware on this subject. I just hate to see teachers who do a great job teaching the subject honestly not be given the accolades they deserve. I’m in my 50s and even though some teacher do still retain the more old fashioned way of presenting these topics, there have been huge strides made from the way I was taught. History is a very static and dynamic thing all at once….that is why it is so interesting, I guess.

Well, it’s good to keep in mind though that many Native Americans prefer to be called Indian. So it just depends on the person, I guess.

Also, it’s important to remember that they are not just marginalized in the past – everything from severely distorted stereotypes being used as mascots, to pressure to assimilate, to the substandard conditions on many reservations; they are all still issues going on right now.

I have close friends who are Cherokee, and have relatives who married into Cherokee families. I have the utmost respect for Native American traditions and values. I do believe NA people were treated very badly by the U.S. Government, by the British, by the Spanish and by the French. And yes, the conditions on reservations and how poorly the agreements between indigenous peoples and the Government have been followed, are shameful.

But we must remember a few things.

(1) Native American culture has been romanticized as much as it has been vilified. In the 1800s, although there were people who thought of NA people as sub-human, there were also people who gave the name “the Noble Indian.” NA people, Indians, were not always noble and selfless. To the Huron, Comanche and many other tribal groups, if you were a stranger you were an enemy. For instance, the name the Navajo give to themselves is Dine’é. It means “the People.” Others were NOT people.
(2) Ergo, Native Americans were not all peaceful people, living in harmony. The Indians of the Southwest have a history of attacking one another. Stealing horses, stealing people and making them slaves—these were not exclusive to Caucasian people, and Europeans did not bring these practices to them. Yes, Europeans brought the horses, but the horses only made it easier for raids to be carried out on enemy groups.
(3) Many other groups have been used as mascots (Pirates, Raiders, Vikings, Cowboys…. the list goes on.)

I’m not trying to stir a controversy, but to inject a bit of reality into a topic that is often one-sided in how it is represented.

@Kassie….I didn’t know that. From my experience, I thought the opposite.
@Tony: Nice view….

I like that too Tony…. though the philosopher in me would argue against reality. :)

Same as any ‘factual’ history. Take WW2, the way it is taught here in the UK in schools is very different from the way they teach it in Germany. Facts are far more than a list of dates and numbers, they are primarily perspectives…. and these are seldom constant.

All this information is so interesting. Like Debbie, I may have to get a history book and re-learn it (hopefully from all view points if there is a book out there).

@ Tony – My father has mentioned a couple of times that we have Cherokee blood in our veins. How would I go about finding out for sure? I did some geological tracking and found many Strictland’s and Lindsey’s in the Cherokee list but not sure how I should find out more. Any suggestions on how to proceed?