I didn’t write this but thought it was an interesting read on learning a language (and I’m sure eduFire would’ve helped too :)

http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/12/29/15258/287

Interesting article Kareem…. but I have to put things into perspective here. I’m a Canadian preparing public servants and people who applied for jobs within the Public Service of Canada to take and pass the three SLE tests in French (reading, writing, oral proficiency)….

Very similar testing to the one this person prepared for in order to move to Canada. It took her one year to PREPARE for those tests (and she just made it according to her)…. not to LEARN the language….

We have to make distinctions here…. no one can learn French within a year through the Shaum exercise book (which by the way is full of mistakes and wrong statements!) and listening to whatever is on the radio and TV….

Let’s not create false hope here!!! :D

I agree Lyne, I spent a year in Québec City have been doing online courses in the year since I left Québec and I have A LOT to learn! Learning a language is a long process full of hard work!

So Norm you know exactly what it takes to learn French! :D It is a very long process…. And, actually the tests this person was referring to in the article are much easier than the ones public servants have to take (otherwise our country would refuse most immigrants, right?). And, for the record, public servants here spend between 9 and 12 months in full-time training (35 hours/week)…. if they can get the levels they need to keep their jobs, most of them could not even sustain small chat about the weather (because in the language schools in Ottawa, they only teach to the tests and it is unfortunate!)…. BTW Norm, you must be pretty good by now! ;-)

Well, if I may…. I learned German in one year. Of course, I continued learning for much longer than that, but that year of hard work was sufficient for me to win first place in a competition organized by the Goethe Institute in Montréal. The prize was a month-long trip to Germany, all expenses paid.

Learning a language similar to the ones we already know (as English, French and German were, in my situation) in a relatively short period of time (a year or two) is definitely possible with dedication and hard work. But let’s be clear: an hour or two a week just won’t cut it.

I agree wholeheartedly Alexandre. Any language linked through the same basis as our own is going to be that much easier to harness than a language based off a completely different system. Which is why it’s taking me much longer to learn Japanese than it has ever taken me to get to grips with French.

Yes, I’m still learning French but I’ve only ever had a couple of hours a week during school for 2 years and never really pushed myself. Whereas now I’m applying myself more but was surprised at how much I had grasped in such a short space of time and how much I could build on that relatively quickly. I believe one could learn a language like French in a year but it would have to be full time with a great deal of hard work.

I suppose one of the biggest reasons we have different ideas on the length of time necessary is because we all may have a different definition of what it means to have ‘learned a language’. Perhaps a difficult thing to define.

Exactely Norm. In one year one will be able to communicate ( make him understood and understand the others) in everyday language and situations, which is very good and enough for most people’s needs.

However speak or better “master” a language is a different thing! To master a language one should be exposed to the language all life long and never stop studying and practicing.

Most of you here have English as a mother tongue. Well, if you had to live in a foreign country for a few years without any contact with the English language you’d slowly lose your first language skills!

Moreover, languages are like human beings and animals: they are always changing and evolving! Most English spoken when you left won’t be the same spoken when you come back:D

An exemple? My bf’s grandpa! He was an Italian having lived all his life in France. When he died last year he was 90 years old, he still had the Italian citizenship but wasn’t able to say a word in Italian anymore.That’s very sad, and this is why we never should stop learning;-)

katia, i agree, you are absolutely right, unused language is a dying language and eventually dead.

Well, I’m not so sure about that Norm. I’d like to think I have mastered English (with it being my mother tongue) yet I was really thinking in depth about this subject only yesterday. I must have been speaking English for around 20 years now, minus the 1 nearly 2 of garbled language, yet I can honestly say if I opened up an astrophysics paper I don’t think I’d be able to pick out much at all that I would be able to understand. I know this is on a different level, something that we go to university to learn about, but I’m talking about the words.

Even in my studying with other languages I’m finding myself wondering what it really means in English. A lot of the terms I learnt in my English classes are long behind me and I do find myself having to refresh my memory on what certain terms mean.

So, I’d like to think that if you were completely surrounded by a target language, you are using and studying it copiously everyday, you could reasonably get to a level of comfortability with it. Sure there is always more to learn, but I believe I’ve still got a long way to go with English but can say I’ve ‘learned’ the language.

Adrienne, it’s great to hear your definition of ‘learned’ but the fact that it differs from what Katia (and I) wrote means that we do indeed have different ideas of what it means to have ‘learned a language’. I think that it would impossible for you to claim that everyone defines that the same way you do. Personally, I don’t think I could ever say that I’ve ‘learned’ French. It sounds like it’s a completed action when in fact I will always be learning French. I do say that I can speak French which to me sounds like an ongoing journey. That’s just my defintion :) Thanks for your thoughts!

Indeed, there are many definitions attached to “learned” a language…. I’ve met people claiming they had learned French, yet they couldn’t express themselves or understand most of what they heard…. I would say they had some notions of “survival French” in very simple daily situations…. as Norm does, I do refer to “learned” as a completed process…. most people “took” French classes and it doesn’t mean they actually “learned” the language. But, yes, they are acquainted with it and they probably could get by in concrete situations not requiring to grasp “nuances” and get into some “abstract” concepts….