Thinking aloud.

The effects of the crisis are obvious. This site mirrors reality too. In general, free classes have higher attendance rate than paid classes. But as always, it is where this rule breaks that we should focus intently. In general free and paid classes showing enrolment offer , besides entertainment, some professional utility, be that learning how to speak a language or how to make an astrological chart. If money was always an issue, in fact the issue, the attendees’ choices would be always predictable. A mere glimpse shows otherwise. That is why there is hope that we can refine and redefine our offer to meet the needs of students, before they meet a teacher. The crisis is why the media these days, specially the TV, is targeting the jobless with advertisement for career growth -English language learning in our case in Spain. It is not a timely marketing lure, but yes they have just doubled the intensity of light they spot the language barrier problem with. The result: there seems to be all over the place a surplus of teachers. But is there really, in an ever growing “market” of pupils? Some online students seek to learn not English, but the languages of the country they like or want to do their business in.

How can we better meet the student’s need? Why are not all enrolments alike? A matter of what? Reputation, which comes with time and mouth to mouth? At this point you may wonder, this Peter Cross -I mean he has not taught a single paid class yet -what in the world is he preaching about? I am not, I am asking for help, help to grow together which is like I like to grow.

Before creating any classes, I put myself on the shoes of a new student or an old one with a new need. Lost in a labyrinth of faces and of star-studded nicks. Yes, I think I could choose a pic from a number of external sings: grinning,serious, friendly, tough, lenient, understanding, fun, tough -looking…And then what? What has he /she to offer? What if he asks me what level I am? Is there a level test? What level am I? Beginner, intermediate ? What do those mean to each one of us, to the teacher? What if I waste my money and time enrolling on the wrong course? What do I accomplish if I get into a 45 minute class named beginners? This class is not a number on a series of classes named beginners! Maybe my teacher has a method hidden somewhere, a series of lessons numbered, or named after grammatical points, but I just do not see them. On such a series, I could receive and return made homework?

And now getting down to a real field case : “Cynthia”, a potential English student living in the US . She could not ask these questions here nor understand what she would be answered , or get it wrong . No much of a reaction, as I showed her this place round . Looking unconvinced, she waited for my final words:

-There is even a section called “I want to learn…”

When she finally spoke up she said exactly what I expected.

-“Well you know, Pedro, if I could read what is discussed here I wouldn’t be needing English classes. This looks like an anglo place, sort of like the US music market before Hispanics had producers, a world where you need to be knowledgeable prior to your being able to move around in the first place! It is only when I know more than oh my god, happy birthday, you’re kidding me, I need a ride to work a few bad words which are all my English vocabulary, than I come in here and learn.

She made me smile. She reminded me of those gyms crowded with fit men and women, their tummies a chocolate bar, or of those churches filled with “holy” people, which make you wonder why they are there instead of the fat and the unholy.

As we kept discussing the subject I made sure that she did not ignore there are teachers who can explain in Spanish. She rather sort of wanted parts of the site – or another site – to be in her spanish language. At first I said to myself that is a wrong way to start fighting a language deficiency. But then, evoking an ancient feel and being myself a painted black bean in a black beans soup, an OWNED! situation flashed before me. It tickled me, actually. I am not scandalised by this sort of things, that are just a matter of time to occur and that mean growth and realism rather than endangering “of the native species”. After all, I have seen so many instances of “primary” explanations being given 100% in the student native language! And if that is acceptable in order to deliver, why would not be to do so as well in order to capture an important cross section of the market lagging behind, fearful to come in but willing?

The time is ripe and the means are there, to globalise everything before being engulfed by neglect, that is, being globalised by sheer reality, and reality is always disorganised.

Migration is a growing trend having a double sided characteristic. On one hand, it becomes less necessary to learn the language of the land to do errands and inquiries and “within the community businesses”. On the other, this sort of endogamic self-integration – or no integration at all : ) – sets farther and farther the chance of ever learning the language of the natives, in which for sure most big businesses are still conducted, and name whatever country you wish.

The natives’ offended gut reaction is, in most cases understandably so, not to further facilitate anybody’s no- integration attitude by setting up more services in a foreign language. However in places like this, that is exactly a catch 22 sort of situation. Seldom are we able to avoid what comes, so we’d better be prepared than surprised.

Most reluctance can’t be blamed on racism at this time and age, and surely not among people devoted to foreign cultures such us teachers, but rather on economics and on a resistance to admit to the need. The good news is that only if I am right there is hope, an immense hope. Because the name of the game for any school has always been, keep the ones that you have happy, while getting new ones in.

Let’s have all a nice day!

(A spanish version of this was published as article)

This made me think.

I have spent the previous several years learning job related subjects as if I was in a feeding frenzy, but now those that job/career related is in need I am focusing on a peripheral subject— a language I doubt if I will ever use. Not that I will stop learning computer related topics, the focus of the previous frenzy has shifted.

It seems that in these rough times, cheap recreation is more important now than it was recently.

Thank you and have a nice day yourself.

Sure, David. People have to enjoy the results of their efforts, if not what is working for :)

Peter…I do have to say…even tough I can read in English, it was really hard for me to understand what was your point!!!!

Juan, sorry about that.

Interesting view, particularly liked and absolutely agree with:
“She made me smile. She reminded me of those gyms crowded with fit men and women, their tummies a chocolate bar, or of those churches filled with “holy” people, which make you wonder why they are there instead of the fat and the unholy.”

Yes Paula, it is a very graphic way tu put it, how they are so “imperfect” that they don’ t dare walk in, having the biggest need. I just know so many in my country – and in the USA too – who just would not know where to click or what they are reading and are so afraid to be below the minimum standards to even take a class to improve. I would say they are eight ninths of the iceberg! So ironic.

Hi again Peter,

your posts are always interesting!

Many ideas here. Let’s start with the most urgent and less metaphotical one:

“Well you know, Pedro, if I could read what is discussed here I wouldn’t be needing English classes. "

And support this idea in the behalf of all native English teachers:

http://edufire.com/ideas/565 (localize this fantastic website;-))

Katia

Thanks, Kathia.
Some “free learning” sites can be navigated in various languages; that would mean they could orient themselves here about the billing and the teachers reviews….We can help one or two, but is not the same for them. And because you have an interest in teaching them they might double guess you. You know what is funny: some non english speakers get into non-english classes to see if they can understand or learn anything by listening, they of course won’t open their mouth. But they won’t enroll in an English class lest they be made to talk and maybe confess in their language that they are lost.

And of course, I see too the other side. A free site has no billing issues and therefore no administative nightmares nor forums to keep an eye on in more than one language.

This is a great post about the need of having Edufire presented in other languages….

“-“Well you know, Pedro, if I could read what is discussed here I wouldn’t be needing English classes. This looks like an anglo place, sort of like the US music market before Hispanics had producers, a world where you need to be knowledgeable prior to your being able to move around in the first place! It is only when I know more than oh my god, happy birthday, you’re kidding me, I need a ride to work a few bad words which are all my English vocabulary, than I come in here and learn.
She made me smile. She reminded me of those gyms crowded with fit men and women, their tummies a chocolate bar, or of those churches filled with “holy” people, which make you wonder why they are there instead of the fat and the unholy.”

Thanks for bringing new life to this thread. I believe this is a current, hot issue here on EduFire.

I’m going to have to seriously think about how to get this done. I’ve taken a lot of steps: finding out I had a real talent for tutoring, pushing hard with a longer term project – my strategic thinking classes, starting with Sun Tzu’s “The Art of War,” but, my motivation for starting all this was to help people like my stepmother from Colombia who had such a difficult time learning English when she married my father and immigrated to Canada. She’s well educated, very intelligent, and it was still quite hard, which just tells me how high the barriers can be.

I don’t think I’ll be able to bridge that gap for Spanish natives without her help. At the very least, I may not be able to do anything for EduFire, but I can – perhaps – put up a website with my stepmother’s help that caters to Spanish natives. It’s just that I spent my twenties learning Japanese, not Spanish, and even if the reverse was true, I know all too well how difficult it is to sound intelligent in a second or third language. Yes, I’d need to teach in English, but the opening pitch probably needs to be in Spanish for the kind of reach I’m hoping for.

It just seems obvious to me that, as an English native, this isn’t the sort of thing I can surmount alone.

“my motivation for starting all this was to help people like my stepmother from Colombia who had such a difficult time learning English when she married my father and immigrated to Canada…” “It just seems obvious to me that, as an English native, this isn’t the sort of thing I can surmount alone.”

There you go. Exactly. But once you start teaching and thinking in this way, you will no doubt get to know where they get stuck. And you can’t but succeed :)

I’ll seriously consider translating an eduFire Japanese page (content) with a few good colleagues…..any takers? EduFire admin team, interested?

The article that begins this thread is also up in Spanish (in content section).

Peter, for someone “thinking out loud”, you express yourself very well — espcially considering English is your second language! (Which language were you “thinking in”? :) )

@ wren Please I would like to work with you on the japanese version for a brochure….. see my thread on marketing edufire in the real world….
Am I being too simplistic in suggesting that the babblefish tool be added to the site in each section. I believe that there is a place that you can put it that will make it available on every page. Most people know the logo and would click on it to see the page in their language…
Almost seems too easy… There must be something more complicated about it or someone would have thought of it already… or not….
let me know if I’m way off base before i put it in the idea section.
PPS: seems that babble fish is too convoluted… but here is another one that looks promising..
here#

Wren, I’m thinking of doing a Japanese page too – my stepmother’s willing to help as much as she can with a Spanish web page for me on a personal level, because like I said, the hook probably needs to be in Spanish – I am very mindful of people looking over a site and saying, “If I could read all this just fine I wouldn’t need classes!” and having been a translator, I know that translating out of your native language is a big risk. So getting native speaker support is a big deal, I think.

What I’m looking at doing in Spanish could just as easily be applied to Japanese. (Though, I can actually read Japanese – I just don’t trust myself to write prose in it.) That’s not a solution I could apply to EduFire itself but, for promoting a specific set of tutoring solutions, yes, it can help. I’ve just been working on non-ESL stuff that required a high initial commitment and won’t need reworking later. ESL tutoring is like the language: it’s like a living, breathing entity. I think, anyway.

Precisely because of that experience I’ve had as a translator, I’m not sure how far using Babelfish will get for commercial purposes, but people are welcome to weigh in….