In the name of fair competion. I ask edufire to limit the number of free classes.

I put it on the idea board.
http://edufire.com/ideas/311

?

Can you say a little bit more about why you’d like this?

Jon:

Here are the answers
http://edufire.com/forums/3/topics/2103?page=1#posts-24780

Enrique, I see where you are coming from but should it not be the choice of the tutor whether his or her class should be free or not. Some people are here just for the experience or because they just generally enjoy teaching and helping people.

Also there are younger students like myself and Dante (although I don’t see him around much anymore) who can’t get access to classes because we’re too young to own paypal accounts so we can’t pay unless we get vouchers.

Arky! I know….I know very well. And there’s no easy solution for that. But, there must be a balance somewhere.

Actually I disagree with this idea. Generally I think it’s loyalty and a feeling of connection that will convert freebie Edufire students into paying Edufire students, and free classes build those things over time but you can’t force it or time it.

But more importantly I think it’s an unnecessary feature. If you want this you can do it yourself with the functions EduFire has already built in: set up a free class and schedule it for maybe two/three weeks every few months as a “trial”

I have students who come to my free classes who will NEVER sign up for a paying lesson, this doesn’t bother me because I use the free classes as an opportunity to experiment with various teaching techniques on the EduFire platform and also to get a better feel for what topics and content are most interesting and attractive to students. I can then take that information and use it to make the paid classes the absolute best I can teach.

On the other hand …. here’s a feature I would like to see (don’t worry I’ll add the idea board) that may suit your needs Enrique: give teacher the option to ban certain students from a specific class. I don’t mind the students who sign up for free classes and never take a paid one, but I do mind the people who sign up for free classes and DON’T SHOW UP. It’s really annoying for me to plan a class with the idea that there will be ten people there and have to retool at the last minute.

I agree with Marianne. We might want to use free classes to experiment new methods or activities, and also as a marketing tool.
I do not believe anybody would want to do that forever and for all classes, because, let’s face it, we do have a life and sometimes we’d rather go out than stay online, and also because if you are a good teacher you’re also aware that it is a profession, not a volunteer job – you want to be paid for it!
Edufire gets a percentage of what we earn, therefore I do not believe it would be in anybody’s interest to have all courses free.
But yes, if a teacher wants to have a few free courses, why not?
Those students who cannot pay today will be paying maybe in the future.
:)
I was actually excited about seeing that I could give some less organized and more creative classes and I am planning to have a few in the future.
So, even if I understand Enrique’s concern, let’s keep them unlimited….

Hi everyone.

After giving it a lot of thought, I am now going to make both of my German classes free and see how many students I actually get. I went through all the classes that have been created so far and maybe 10 students have signed up for all classes you have to pay for.

I am going to offer only so many classes as an introduction and then if they want to continue they have to pay for the group class or take my class one on one.

as much as i dislike disagreeing with any edufire folks, i’ve got to say that i don’t agree that edufire should place limits on the number of free classes.

This is now how I am going to sell myself!!!

Free German For Beginners Class 8-10 Students
Subject
German
Cost
Free
Next Class Meets
Jan 26 07:00 PM EST
Monday

Free Conversational German Class 8-10 Students
Subject
German
Cost
Free
Next Class Meets
Jan 27 07:00 PM EST
Tuesday
About This Class

Free Introduction to German Course online:
Free Introductory Class
5 free Sessions once a Week -5 weeks

After that: if you are interested you will have to
pay $5.00 for a group class or $18.00 an hour
one on one.

After 5 weeks. if you are interested you will have to
pay $5.00 for a group class or $18.00 an hour
one on one.

I am going to it this way so that any student knows that this class is free only for five weeks and after that they are going to have to pay.

Not sure if I’m allowed to do this, but here’s a copy/paste of what I said in the Minimum # of students thread.

Hey everyone, this is an awesome discussion. I’m going to reply from the perspective of me (koichi) and not an eduFire staffer. I promise, no bias here.

First, this is an example of how the business model works:
http://i.gizmodo.com/5137827/monty-python-puts-free-videos-online-sells-23000-more-dvds

Monty Python starts streaming the best clips for free. A large amount of people just watch the free clips, and enjoy that. But, because those free clips are being offered, their sales on DVDs went up by 23,000%! That’s a ridiculous number. It didn’t happen overnight, this is several months we’re talking about. Those that are never willing to pay probably won’t ever pay, but it helped find those that were willing.

Second (once again from the perspective of me, and not eduFire), is that I would definitely pay for something I thought I’m getting quality for. I will admit that I’m surprised some of the classes are being held for free. There are a lot there that I’d be willing to pay for, though I’m the type that actually enjoys paying for quality things – I want to help the person / company out that’s offering something good, and they help me with their quality product. I know that many people will never pay for anything, and that’s just how it is (especially on the internet), but there are plenty out there that are either on the fence, or (like me) very willing and happy to spend their money on good things.

I would give some time for the eduFire classes economy to level out. Right now, the classes lesson is like an new nation, where the economy is still trying to make sense of itself, people don’t know how much money is worth, and the value of things is still being decided.

A highly recommended couple of books for those of you who are worried about competing against the free folks (one of which I’m reading right now):

“Purple Cow” & “Free Prize Inside: How to Make a Purple Cow” – both by Seth Godin, the master of online Marketing.

Anyways, I love this discussion!

Koichi and others,

What do you think of the change I made in the advertisement for my classes?

@DJ – totally agree

@Koichi – yes!

@John – I can only give my own point of view here, if I were a potentinal student. You’re giving a lot away and then suddenly stopping? I’d be more inclined to pay if say, every month you just ran the same lesson, over and over.
A. How many times would I want to register for the same lesson? Not many! But it would encourage me to think …. I like German, John’s a very cool teacher as I’ve been to his free class, heck why not take his paid classes?
B. New students register every single day. They need to see you.

I think we need to look at a long-term process of a mixture of free and paid. However, there should be a definite difference betwee what you give away and what you charge for.

As I said, that was my point of view as a student.

@koichi : i hope everybody in the world gets to read your post about net biz! wow. right on.

@marco : tx! and i couldn’t agree more that “there should be a definite difference between what you give away and what you charge for.”

Hey guys. Love all the dialogue here. I think there have been some fabulous points. A few things to add….

1 – I think one of the really important things to remember is that at some point eduFire isn’t going to be the only place online where you can teach a class. Actually, there is at least one other site out there that allows you to do something similar to what you could do on eduFire (although not quite as well of course ;).

If we restrict the # of free classes someone is ultimately going to come allow and offer unlimited free classes and then people wishing to teach will go there instead of here. Which more than likely will not bode well for people teaching paid classes. The nature of the Internet is to be open, and to not place too many restrictions on people. That’s what we’re trying to do.

2 – I think a lot of the confusion is simply a misunderstanding of the purpose of having free classes. People should teach free classes because either they simply love teaching and have no desire to make money from it and/or because they want to promote the paid classes or tutoring services that they are offering. Hopefully it will be combination of both for most people. :)

Here’s a great example of how to do this. Rachel’s free class has 30 students and her paid class class only has 4. But I can guarantee you that if the people who go to her free class really like it that a lot of them will sign up for her paid class. That’s the way to approach this.

3 – It’s really early. Goodness gracious, we launched this on Tuesday. :) When I see a free class with 30 people or a paid class with 3 people in it I get incredibly psyched. Because based on the growth of our site those numbers should be 10x that a year from now. And when a teach can run a class with 30 people and charge $5 or $10 a person and take home 85% of that, well, that’s really frickin cool.

But here’s what’s going to have to happen.

Teachers are going to have to get really good. Really good at using the eduFire platform. Really good at marketing their class on craigslist and Twitter and Facebook and beyond. Really good at connecting with their students and making sure their experience is fantastic and that they are learning a ton. Really good at producing someone that is so awesome that their students will go and tell all their friends that they have to sign up for that teacher’s class.

Some of the teachers here at eduFire will do that. And those people, I think, are going to do very, very well. Others won’t. And they may struggle to find enough students willing to pay them.

We are going to be doing a lot more to market eduFire in the future and the site is already growing at a really strong clip so it’s only going to get easier to fill your classes. However, if you’re having problems then I think the best question is to ask yourself is what things you can do to build your presence online and attract people into your classes. That’s putting the control back into your hands which is where it should be. And that’s something we strongly feel is important to do!

I think there’s one thing we need to all keep in mind, which has been mentioned by Koichi, Jon, Marco, and possibly others.

Give it time! I’ve been seeing eduFire advertised for the free classes for a while now. Eventually, that’ll die down. It’ll go back to people telling their friends to come here because the classes and tutoring sessions are worth their money, not because there are free classes. Also, the more accustomed people get to the paid classes, the more likely they’ll be to take them.

I will be offering some new free one-to-many classes very soon on EduFire. I have many “out-of-the-box” ideas I want to explore. I can use my eduFire experience to enhance my value at work. There are many ways to make money through knowledge. eduFire is a great marketing tool for consultants and those who work for themselves.

I’m against limiting the amount of free classes. Customers define the business and if it is not offered here, our customers will find it elsewhere.

I also see eduFire as providing “global community service” – providing an easy way to make the world just a little bit better. eduFire doesn’t force tutors to offer only fee-based classes so it makes no sense to limit free classes.

Hello everyone!

I’ve been following these heated discussions and I don’t want to stirr anything again, but after giving it much thought…..

….. I think that limiting free 1:M classes would mean limiting a lot of opportunities here on the site….

….opportunities for tutors to make themselves known and gain students’ trust….

….opportunities for students to test different teaching styles and see what fits them best….

…. opportunities to experiment, share and have fun in a friendly way….

From a tutor’s perspective, I’m very glad that eduFire offers me the possibility to organize free classes. I have a few in plan and will put them into practice soon….. Not to win students (people who want to learn Latin and/or Romanian are rare!) but to gain teaching experience and self-confidence…. (I need both) If I can do that and share my passions, I feel paid in a very important way…. I’m not being hypocritical here – I really gain a lot by practicing this…..

Of course, Enrique, I see your point. I do. And I understand how frustrating it can be. Especially that you had lots of students during the beta period…. But it’s not the existance of free 1:M that makes people not come – look at Arabic classes for instance – Dr. Hamdy’s awesome class has 9 students, despite the fact that there are 3 similar free classes! (you rock, Hamdy!). Just one example.

Free classes certainly have their role. Otherwise eduFire would not allow them (remember that the site has a lot of things to pay for….). I’m confident that, in the long run, it’s going to be a great investment…. As Jon says, it’s still early….

All in all, I think classes should be treated case by case. I absolutely agree that you should charge for your classes, and I think that $5 is a fantastic price for a session with an experienced tutor like you!

But you can’t compare serious classes like that with informative yet unconventional classes like DJ’s fantastic songs & lyrics classes or my Mottos class for example. I can’t possibly charge for that. It’s a totally different thing. Or Town Halls and Marco & Koichi’s classes about using eduFire…. these things should remain free!

At least this is my honest opinion…. Good luck with your classes, everyone! And use free 1:Ms wisely! :)

1:M classes are a product. Like any product, the marketplace will determine its success and its value.

In business, many people say “so and so” has all the luck. Why? So and so is a smart lady – she makes her own luck. Offer free 1:M classes to make your own luck. Here is my example.

I started a new job last month. I like to be a “top player” so I look for opportunities to shine. The office manager told me that a few weeks ago the president of the company told her he was interested in bamboo farming, order some books from Amazon, read them, and write him book summaries because he doesn’t have time to read them. When I created my free Business Persons Book Club class (http://edufire.com/classes/446-business-person-s-book-club-free-classes). I invited him. I figure he doesn’t have time to read the books I’m teaching in class.

So, maybe you want to work in sales, marketing, product training, etc. Your current job may not give you the opportunity to show off some of your other valuable skills but eduFire will. Create a free class and invite your boss. Make your own luck!

Maybe you are a consultant or a salesperson. Create a free class that your customers and clients, plus eduFire friends can enjoy. I did.

http://edufire.com/classes/483-the-green-house

Make your own luck!

Want to be a motivational speaker? Want to be the next Tony Robbins? eduFire offers you a stage to learn your craft. Use the free classes to make money and learn new skills. Make your own luck!

Some eduFire teachers are making money in the sea of free classes. I applaud them! They have proven that you can compete against free! They have proven that it is not the competition of free classes that is the obstacle.

Everyone that teaches on eduFire has entrepreneurial spirit.That is why we are here. The people at eduFire have given us this wonderful platform. All we have to do is make our own luck!

I agree with statements here and there and no one is truly wrong in this discussion. Im just here to add my opinion which is purely as a student here at edufire.

This all started with how I discovered edufire. I was making my usual rounds on the web and I happened to stumble upon Koichi’s Tofugu blog. (I don’t remember how I ended up there, but I guess you could relate it to going through wikipedia) Some post there just happened to catch my attention so I started reading. Eventually after going through a few posts and watching a few of his Youtube videos I kind of understood his personality. While on his blog I stumbled upon the post 39 Free Japanese Courses You Should Sign Up For Right Now. This caught my interest. I saw an opportunity to take a class to learn Japanese that I would haven’t been able to experience untill I entered college. A course like this isn’t offered in my area and I have no idea who and what to trust on the internet. Having read his blog and getting to “know” Koichi through his blog I was more inclined to sign up for his class. Considering this was a free class I decided that I had nothing to lose and everything to gain, but even with the class being free I still had my doubts as to whether I should sign up for it. In the end my drive for learning Japanese took over and I even rescheduled my weekly plans for January just to take the class. I even went off and invited my friend who also had an interest. Now after taking classes with Koichi if I had the money, a credit card, and a paypal account I wouldn’t mind paying a bit to take his next level of classes.

The one thing that bothered me was the people who signed up for the class and didn’t attend because I’m sure that there are many people out there who would rework a part of their schedule to make free 2 hour a week to attend a well taught class, so I absolutely agree with the idea of removing students that don’t show up. My idea for charging for lessons is that beginner classes could be offered for free, but the intermediate and more difficult classes could have fees for them. It also allows teachers to find out who are motivated in learning more about what they’re teaching. It’s easy to pick up the basics, but taking the next step to make it more fluent is where people usually give up. Since most people here offer beginning and upper level classes I don’t see it as much of a problem. This would allow for new students who are reluctant to trust someone they don’t know and possible won’t meet in their lifetime to get to know the class are and the teacher. I know that I was very reluctant to sign up for the class at first even with it being free. But, in the end, it all depends on the teacher. As people have posted above, some like giving the free classes as experience and tests for new techniques. Just my mind on this issue.

You have to keep in mind that in this day and age not everyone can pay so much money. Everybody is cutting back on either something or the other. Maybe try to think of something like getting revenue from ads or survey’s to take your free class….

PLUS the free classes gives everyone a chance to know what a great teacher you are and they make you want to if you do have some money signup for that teachers class and another addition some people need a place where they can teach for their love of teaching or practice teaching ect, If I was a higher level in Japanese I would love so much to teach a Japanese class for free.

I’m really enjoying following this thread! I have been the fortunate ones to have the chance to participate in teaching the free 1:M lessons. I’ve learned from the “students” in my class probably more than they’ve learned from me. I do support the low/no cost lessons, but also support for pay lessons, too as all the reasons mentioned above. And to comment on Sandra’s post, it’s not only the “serious” classes people pay for, but exactly for those “unconventional” classes that makes eduFire so attractive! (I wanted to but didn’t sign up for yours and DJs classes because I didn’t want to be one of those “bad, bad students” that signs up for a class and don’t show up! Bad, bad…finger wagging)
People pay bukoo bucks for entertainment and personal enrichment, and if it was only natural “languages” and “test prep” that was taught here, I don’t think eduFire would be as fun a place to be.

I think we need to admit that our universal “measure” for what we value is “money”. People will pay for what they deem valuable. If I weren’t so time-starved, I would be in a lot more free & paying classes, guaranteed!!
Giving a sneak peek or a taste of the value you could get in a class, is a responsibility I put on myself as a “tutor”. It is also the student’s responsibility to get as much out of the class, too. :) Power to us all!!