A couple of weeks ago, I had created an introductory class to outline a “possible” PAID Beginner French Class Series… No one had signed up as for 11:00 am (EDT) today. And my class was (and I stretch on WAS) scheduled for 2:00 pm (EDT) today.

Then one student signed up also leaving a note on the wall : “start now please”… Can someone enlighten me on this message because I don’t get it! When I looked at the student’s profile, I saw ON EDUFIRE SINCE MARCH 21, 2009 (yesterday right?) and under CLASSES ATTENDED, there were already 8 classes listed… most of them with times overlapping (?!?).

I then decided to cancel this afternoon class because I knew I would waste my time… I sent a message to the ONLY student who had registered (at the last minute, it’s the least I can say) saying if they were seriously interested in participating in a series of paid classes, they only had to send me a personal message and I’d add their name on the list.

I edited the class by adding an IMPORTANT NOTICE (I think it’s big enough for everyone to read!) saying this class was cancelled today and, once again, if anyone were interested, they just had to send me a message.

Some 10 minutes later, someone signed up! I concluded that this person had not even read the class description… otherwise my notice would have been seen, right? I sent this person an email with the same details… then I looked at this individual’s profile: ON EDUFIRE SINCE MARCH 22, 2009 (it’s today, isn’t it?) and under CLASSES ATTENDED, there were already 3 classes listed (and two of them – of which mine – were almost at the same time today!).

Conclusion, I decided to not waste anymore effort or invest my time into trying to attract people in my possible future classes. Actually I already have one with serious people and I’ll stick to this one!

It will be interesting to see if the people of my cancelled class will leave me “points” and feedback… then I thought of this thread on the forums:

http://edufire.com/forums/3/topics/2928

Well… if someone wants to fire back at me because I did cancel a class that should I say was of no REAL interest to these people, I do not care! I only care about MY students’ feedback! :D

Dear Michael, thanks for your unconditional support! big smile :D

Like you I like the eduFire community, I think there are great people here…. yet there’s definitely a lack of elementary discipline. And I really don’t know what motivates students to jump in any classes they see (and apparently they aren’t interested in the course content either!) the very same day they put up a profile! In my opinion, it’s a lack of maturity: it would be interesting to see what is the average age…. I don’t think (although I might be wrong) adults have time for this type of games.

As for points and feedback, well…. there isn’t much I can do if someone gets p….. at me because of my drastic decisions…. but, once again, I’d put it on the account of immaturity…. the least I can say, it wouldn’t hurt my feelings a bit! :) Why do you think my name is La Dame dragon? It comes from my students themselves yet…. it’s a term of endearment for them…. they know I’m demanding and I’m kind of drastic, yet I’m very supportive and over protective of my students!!! And they DO know that I always work in their best interest…

I’m sure Marco will find a solution soon…. all he needs is time and big smiles from all of us who really appreciate him! :D

Yes, attendance is an issue.

I just finished a class with 18 students registered. Only 3 showed up.

Enrique, I do admire you! You have more patience/tolerance than I do! ;) You still show up for class…. how long will you live with that?….

And the downside of this is also the fact that no one makes actual progress…. and if there are a couple of serious individuals, it must be kind of discouraging for them as well….

Yes, attendance seems a real issue and a big thing I would need to address with my classes. I had 3 friends wonder what I do. So, I made a sample class and set the attendance and only 1 showed up. That proves to me what friends I have and their willingness to do something. I also find it amusing that those who you think are your best friends, turn out to not really be, sadly : (

Tyler…. sorry to hear about your friends…. yet (the voice of experience talking here ;) ) I learned a long time ago to not mix friendship with business….

Many of my former students are now my friends (in real life) and, I wouldn’t teach them anymore! ;) Only because they would think they can get away with anything!…. and I don’t think it would be good for our friendship.

That being said, I’m expecting much more from actual strangers who want to have French classes with me: motivation, willingness, seriousness, etc. I have to say though, on the bright side, that people who enrolled in my Intermediate French class series are great people and I’m sure these classes will be a “success story”! :P

The “start now please” sounds like dragging your nails across the board. I love your plan Lyne: stick with people who appreciate your work, they are definitely the bunch that matters most. : ) I think that’s really cool though that other people sign up to a class, that means that they are initially interested in what you are offering, but they become kinda iffy because they are new in the neighborhood, so they end up shying away (”they won’t miss me because they don’t know me" kind of attitude). My humble opinion.

I didn’t showed up for a few classes when edufire was under the beta stage (for personal reasons: traffic jam, baby needs FIRST, computer connection etc), I got “slapped in the hand”, for not showing up. That’s why I don’t think it’s effective this “hard time”, everyone got issues. So instead what tutors have to keep in mind is:

Why am I offering free classes? What kind of program should I have available for a free class ( a lot of info or the basics?) Is it a series of classes or just 1 or 2 classes? What’s my main goal? Answering these questions would ease our anxiety and make us rethink how we want to perform these free classes. What do you think Lyne? Even when you post on your class page say for example “these classes are meant only for serious students” (bold, red, pink, large letters, flashing etc), people just don’t read them anymore (but for liability we have to post them anyways). We have to come up with a different plan.

IF my goal it’s to have only people who are completely interested in taking my classes, then I will start charging a $5 fee to those who don’t show up in the first class or even didn’t bother contacting the tutor prior to the first meeting (the not so interested folks). But this fee shouldn’t go to the tutor’s pocket (no way!) it should go to somebody else: CHARITY. Why not?

If you have other goals in mind and don’t care so much if attendees show up or not, then forget the theory above.

Yes, we can’t force somebody to pay for anything, it sounds rude right? But we can be realistic here: you signed up for a class because it’s free then don’t show up ( for many reasons) and didn’t contact your tutor before hand, that just won’t take you anywhere. But if you pay the $5 fee for not showing up on the first meeting, you are actually doing something amazing for yourself: helping others. You also do something amazing for yourself when you sign up and show up for your class. Simple.

Now if your tutor didn’t contact you for a class cancellation or reschedule, no worries: edufire team will hunt them down. : )

(sigh) I’m just saying it, guys. I love my “$5 fee no-show” theory meant for the 1:M Free Classes, I wonder if it can become applicable some day. (another sigh)

What you guys think of that? Shoot. : )

My Solution to this would be that the Student has to give short message stating their intentions and the tutor may accept or deny the request for joining a class.

That may be a little more paper work, but maybe resolve the current issues, and gives everyone “a face” in a matter of speaking.

Speaking for my self, i’d gladly join classes for 5$ / sessions, as long as i can expect a well planned class and the information it promised before hand. Although i’d like it a little more if you could set a payment for multiple classes, like 5classes for 10$, which would lover the costs a bit, but thats a different story. (and not possible yet i know.)

Don’t worry Angela, I have all the warning signs in my classes’ descriptions…. stuff like: I’m expecting people to show up on time for all classes, to show seriousness, to participate 100%, etc.

Then if I don’t want anybody to join, I write something like only people who attended Part 1 or have been assessed can sign up for these classes …. Usually it works (yet those classes aren’t free, therefore less tempting right?).

The $5 fine is a good idea, although it would probably cause some headaches to the eduFire team…. and people can still decide to not pay…. we all know individuals who don’t pay their bills!

In my real life practice…. a 48 hour advanced notice is required to cancel a course which then will be re-scheduled (and the student/client will pay only for one course)…. shorter notice? they have to pay the full amount! Trust me, they don’t do it more than once!!! Because we’re talking about a real substantial amount of money here: people who pay from their own pocket realize it might become costly…. and when their employer is paying, well they get scolded…. therefore they rarely do it twice! :D

Rene, your solution is already applied by quite several teachers now…. students have to contact them if they’re interested and then if it sounds serious, the teachers open a seat for them to sign up….

It’s kind of unfortunate, yet chances are that trend will become usual practice if there is no change occurring in the present registration system…. :)

You know that is not a bad idea. One no-show and they have to give an explanation to why they didn’t show up. Integration Time

i think that problem is new students once they sign up they want to explore the site so they start playing and when i say playing i mean playing….this happens to me and my friend the student actually book a class with me or her and we prepare and open the class room and wait and no body show up….even if he showed up and attend and didn’t pay i don’t think edufire will do any thing to him….there is no tutor protection that’s why i decided to make a prepayment for all my sessions and paid classes

>The $5 fine is a good idea, although it >would probably cause some headaches >to the eduFire team…. >and people >can still decide to not pay…. we all >know individuals who don’t pay their >bills!

Exactly Lyne, as I said above nobody can be forced to pay for anything. But this symbolic amount represents giving back to the community. That’s a way of connecting and helping people. (regular bills go to some company not to in need people). For 1:M free classes: send the invoice to the “no-show person”, the money is going to charity (add charity’s name, link, contact info etc) If they actually pay, good for them and for the charity. Both winners.

I have a slight idea of what the invoice should say. Tadaaa : ) And I hope the guys from edufire know what I’m talking about (!?) . My brain cells are hurting lol

Angela…. you made me think of something…. for 6 years I had a big contract with the largest union here and I had a beautiful jar (4 feet high) on which there was this engraved phrase: Ashes of Bad Students Each time someone would misbehave (we’re talking about adults here) – answering cell phones during class, text messaging, etc (until I bought a nice cedar box that I placed at the entrance of the classroom where students had to drop their electronic toys in before entering, which solved that problem of mine!) – their names would go in that jar for such or such a period of time…. and the names would stay on the whiteboard also!

So imagine what I’m thinking of at this very minut! :P My brain cells are also hurting!

The thing is, Tyler, your theory might work for some people and might not work for other people. How come?? Well, it sounds like those parents whose teen got home after the so called curfew. These parents can be sweet, understanding, cool, but it’s so uncool for a teen to get to talk about why they weren’t home earlier, why they didn’t showed up for dinner. They rather hear: we missed you.

Your theory is beautiful! You have my vote.It might work for some, it might not work for others.

Just as a little note: the little ‘hole’ that allows one to leave feedback for classes that you have not attended will be plugged. It’s on the developers’ ToDo list. :)

Love the discussion and ideas by the way.

One thing I have learned. There is no old people, just more seasoned than others.

@ Marco…. great to hear that plugging the little hole allowing feeback for unattended classes is on the eduFire developers’ To-Do-List! ;) I knew we could count on you to push the issue!!!

@Michael…. you summarized it so well : both the clients and the provider must feel good and smile after a contract!!! As for my jar…. I got it in Ottawa (time for you to re-visit my lovely city!!!) :P You should also try the beautiful cedar box with cushioned velvet lining: it works wonderfully with the toys! I did the same w reporters at the CBC – miraculous! And yes, a bit of self-discipline (not discipline imposed by others) is a great asset in life!

@Tyler…. I’m sure Michael will looooooove your compliment…. since I’m definitely older than he is, I’ll think of myself as “seasoned” also! :)

@ Lyne….Oh yes. I found a website that had a bunch of different sayings and that was on of them and after I stopped laughing, I realized it’s a great way to look at life.

Tyler I won’t tell you my age, but in my head I’m still a teenager…. numbers will always be only numbers, right? And aging has its positive side: we become much wiser…. :D

True, although there are downsides in being younger….you have to acknowledge the fact that you haven’t learned anything. Maybe that’s why it’s so fun. ; )

Of course I’m a teenager in my head only Tyler! :P I wouldn’t go back there unless I’d be guaranteed to keep the wisdom/experience I did acquire along the years…. ;)

If that were possible the world would be better. I think.

Hi all, love the heavy handed suggestions but I am afraid they are not relevant to this business model. Years ago I read about a big restaurant in HongKong which had the typical live fish on display, dinner, plus an extra tank, lots of water, no fish, and a sign that said “Can your mobile swim ?”.

Tyler – a friend once told me that “Experience is the comb that life gives you when you are bald” – yes when you are young and energetic it would be nice to have that experience to help guide you.

In all of this there needs to be a simple solution. I am assuming that the free classes both a marketing tool and a benevolent / information sharing tool and edufire is losing money on these unless they bring in more paying students.

Some of the very effective classes in this area are the “one off” broadcast classes which attract very large numbers of students. I recently attended on such class that appeared to have 30 or more online.

The paid group classes must in many cases be pretty marginal to run, particularly those with small groups and charging a small amount, the overheads are substantial.

So what does this mean? My suggestions using KISS principle – Keep It Simple Stupid "

Broadcast classes – leave them as they are – one off classes, students need only register.

Free classes, the small groups – prospective students must contact the teacher and be admitted, to attend the next session the students must tick the box and the tutors approve the box sometime before the class commences – very simple to administer.

Paid classes, prospective students must contact the teacher and be admitted, and agree to an explicit payment staement, the tutors approve the box sometime before the class commences. To attend the next session the students must tick the box and the tutors approve them (or not). Similar to the free class, except that the agreement to pay step is inserted. This step could also advise that the student will be charged/billed for the class unless the student contacts the tutor and the tutor agrees to waive the charge.

These changes would be formal enough to scare off the button pushers and not so formal that they would scare off the serious students.

Philip…. good ideas! This thread is kind of a brainstorming exercise and perhaps, at the end, simple and effective solutions will be found and applied to everyone’s satisfaction! :D