Hey guys. I was hoping it wouldn’t come to this but I feel the need to speak.

For the better part of 2009 we’ve been slaving away to launch and grow SuperPass because we felt that, at the end of the day, it was the absolute best way for teachers to earn a consistent living on eduFire. While a la carte classes have been a successful and growing part of the business it has been our feeling that by growing our base of subscribers/students that many of you would be able to earn part-time living and eventually full-time livings teaching on eduFire.

While we still feel that is the case there have been some instances over the last 30 days that have disappointed us.

We’ve seen teachers do whatever they can to take advantage of the SuperPass structure ranging from teaching 5 minute classes to teaching overlapping classes (where they are literally teaching two classes at once) to getting large numbers of students to sign up for $1 trials, having them take lots of classes during that period and then instructing them to drop their trial membership before they are billed the monthly fee.

These things aren’t “normal”. You wouldn’t expect to go work for a school and get paid to teach a 5 minute class or get paid double time by getting paid to be in two classes at once. But because we’re trying something new here at eduFire and we haven’t closed every loophole some teachers (and again, this is a small minority) have chosen to exploit the system. In the short term it might seem clever. After all, who wouldn’t want to get paid a lot of money for doing a very small amount of work.

But in the long term it simply doesn’t work.

It should be painfully obvious to anyone who thinks about it for more than 2 minutes that if you’re making $3 for a 5 minute class then there’s no way SuperPass isn’t going to be a money-losing venture. Sure there are loopholes that can be found and even if we implement tons of rules around SuperPass you are probably still going to be able to find a loophole. Certainly there were many people who have tried to scam eBay and craigslist over the years and some of them definitely make money although it makes the experience worse for everyone else.

The people are feel the worst for are the legitimate teachers on our site. The ones who do all the right things, deliver great classes and don’t try to pull anything sneaky. Those are the folks who lose when other people abuse SuperPass. They get a much smaller part of the pie than they should.

I’m not going to say anything right now about what we are or aren’t going to do in terms of changing SuperPass. But I do hope that every teacher who is currently trying to figure out first and foremost how they can extract the most value out of SuperPass instead of thinking about how they can add the most value to eduFire to reconsider their actions. Because it’s not about me or about us, it’s about the community here. Show up, deliver awesome classes and trust us, over time you’ll make more money than you can imagine. But if we have to continue to deal with some of the stuff that we’ve had to deal with over the last month it’s going to make it really hard for everyone.

hi jon, i think edufire administration should find out those teachers who tried to beat the system and take actions against them.

Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.
Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly
{words of martin Luther king Jr. }

limit the super-pass to be used only for one subject, a language, a field or an area of studies. this way you can increase the profits of edufire.

“We’ve seen teachers do whatever they can to take advantage of the SuperPass structure ranging from teaching 5 minute classes to teaching overlapping classes” They are not “Teachers”. A true breed teacher will not do that.

We’ve been seeing irregular activities. We talked about some on the forums.

It makes me really sad to see that people have been trying to go around the system in such a way. Things like this are not good for anyone in the long term. The greedy side of human nature has once again shown itself. Like you’ve stated, this simply doesn’t work. The most efficient way to make money (although it definitely isn’t a quick buck) is to build a customer base by consistently making incredibly high-quality classes over a long period of time. The people who try to cheat the system to get a small amount of money quickly are not only cheating the students, they’re cheating eduFire, the teachers, and themselves. A high amount of low quality classes will cause eduFire to lose students, which will hurt the other teachers and of course the community as a whole.

Basically, I’m just repeating what John has already stated. I really hope this doesn’t continue at the same rate it has been (although it’s unlikely that it will just stop).

While I agree that these teachers should be punished and I like the Martin Luther King Jr. quote, I can’t agree that superpass should be limited in any way (for the student). I believe that entirely defeats the purpose.

Also, I agree that a true breed teacher would never do anything like what has been described.

I agree with Joe. Over time that’s cheating not just others, but oneself, because there are some things that may provide added value briefly — for an instant — but not over time. One can’t build a teaching career that way.

It seems that there’s one or two in every bunch…. maybe a solution would be to do something on the back end that would allow only 1 class per hour per tutor or per IP address or per email address or something that designated the tutor….. seems that it should be possible from a software place that when we are creating our classes if we are overlapping the system would not allow us to post that second class for the same time slot. As for the $ 1. thing… maybe that in and of itself is not a good idea… it seems that if you can get classes for approx $1.00 a day that is a good enough deal. 29.00 a month is a awesome deal…. so drop the $1 free trial thing. or give them the second month for $1.00…. so they pay 29.00 for the first month and $1.00 for the second…. seems convoluted but it might work ;-)

As for the short classes. I saw here in the forum that classes will be mandatory 45 minutes. If a teacher breaks this rule more than say 3 times they are suspended from scheduling any classes or teaching on edufire for a specified length of time. Then they will be allowed back in… If the do it again then they are barred from teaching here… Again this seems like something that could be monitored from the back end with some type of software adjustment that would hold the IP address or something so that a computer would not be allowed to be on a different class if they have not finished the prior one.
Maybe a reward for students. They can’t be enjoying a 5 minute class themselves,
My mom also said that cream floats to the top so….the Good teachers will be the ones with the best rating….
Jon…. This is an awesome site and i am new here… I am creating classes that will be geared to the superpass structure. so please don’t take that away….
Maybe if “someone” did a class that sort of “ran the numbers” so that people could see how much is possible for them with superpass if they are offering quality and if there are enough students who buy superpass.
If I understand it correctly…. superpass rates are determined by how many people buy a superpass in a month. So If the fee for superpass is say 2.50 per student and we have 100 students in the class then a 1 hour class will give the teacher 250.00. if you teach even two classes a day then that is the potential to earn 500.00 per day. That’s nothing to sneeze at. Maybe if they could see the potential they would be more likely to work within the system.
From reading some of the post about Superpass some of the teachers seem to be looking at it on a per student basis and feeling that they are missing out. Maybe they are not understanding the “volume” aspect. Or it is possible that I am confused… it has been known to happen ;-)

If the other membership sites can monitor from the back end I am sure if all the brainy guys really put on their thinking caps it could happen here too.
This shold not be something that the edufire team has to babysit but that the system could control once set up… Just a thought….

People like them really do exist and it is up to a few good men out there to do the right thing for the good of the community. We totally support you on this Mr. Jon Bischke and thank you for sharing it.

Two thoughts:

1. Why wouldn’t anybody recognize that hurting edufires business is hurting the tutors business, too? I know those people do exist, I just don’t know why.

2. When experimenting and trying to figure-out how to pull a profit, someone might accidentally step on edufires toes. I like Alaia’s idea of giving them 2 chances before you start penalizing them. I would say 1, but the idea is the same.

When I first learned of the SuperPass program through eduFire I can remember thinking what a simple, yet cutting edge solution it is to what many of us here on eduFire seems to have been looking for. Not only does SuperPass give us the opportunity to start and grow a true web-based business that provides real value to our students, it also helps solve part of a larger problem society has in how to deliver quality education at more affordable costs. The best of both worlds and a win-win situation are two of the fastest clichés that come to mind.

But now comes word that this potentially game-changing program (another cliché) is coming under attack by a relatively few near-sighted, dumb-witted, teachers-in-name-only who see an opportunity of stealing a few quick bucks more enticing than the true opportunity the program gives to people like me who are working diligently to create new and exciting classes for students. Sorry my friends, but there is only one response I can express…

These people make me sick!

For some reason which I have yet to fully understand, I feel a warm affection for eduFire that I can’t recall ever feeling for any other destination on the web. It’s hard to adequately describe how I feel when leaving a message for my friend in Thailand on the social website Hi-Five and seeing the eduFire banner ad flashing at the top of the screen. Please forgive me, but I feel like, Wow! That’s MY Website!

A couple of weeks ago a similar feeling came over me while watching Jon Bischke giving an interview on the Fox Business Network program Happy Hour. It felt like being at Yankee Stadium at the start of the World Series and rooting for my favorite team. But this time, instead of cheering from the stands above first base I am cheering from the dugout as an actual member of the team. And I firmly believe Team eduFire is on the way to helping to Revolutionize Education in such the same way the Yankees have dominated American baseball the past two decades.

So I have a personal message for those idiotic imbeciles who seem bent on robbing the members of this community dedicated to revolutionizing education… YOU WILL NOT SUCCEED!!!

This is not simply another e-commerce site, it is a site dedicated to providing both students and tutors alike the wonderful opportunity to fulfill their goals through sharing their passion for both teaching and learning. It is not just a faceless site like e-bay, Google or Amazon. This is a site where the individuals who make up this great community shine through all the technology that makes up the internet. What makes eduFire great are the excellent teachers like Claire Lim, Enrique Kates, Alaia Leighland, Anton Kunin, Newoka LeShelle, and others far too numerous to mention, who work tirelessly to share their passion for education with students such as my great eduFire friend Joe Munro. These people care about eduFire because this isn’t just another site for them to go to in between checking their email and reading about the latest exploits of Brittney Spears and Angelina Jolie. The members of the eduFire community care about this site because, in a way I have yet to figure out why, most of us feel that the administrative team behind eduFire cares for us as well!

So it is not only the eduFire staff that will be watching diligently to put an end to the shenanigans that rob everyone who enjoys this great educational community. Like many other eduFire community members, I will be watching out for and reporting questionable class schedules like those that Jon described to Team eduFire. Between the eduFire technical staff and those of us who view this site as being somewhat like their own site, eventually those bent on cheating the system will be done away with!

I hope all of you here on eduFire will stand up and report those who break the rules in regards to SuperPass!

It’s always a shame but there are always people that try to take advantage of the system. A few suggestions.

1. For the $1.00 special, limit it to 4 classes in one day and you cannot take 2 consecutive classes. It’s a special promotion, you can set limitations. Plus, the promotion should be an eduFire buffet, not all you can eat.

2. Like Craigslist, create a “flag with care option, miscategorized, prohibited,” etc. Let the eduFire community help police the community.

3. If you suspect fraud, don’t pay the teacher. eduFire has a terms of agreement. What are the chances that they will pursue the matter in court. You can amend the terms of service to read, “payment will be withheld if eduFire suspects misuse,” etc.

I like the flag idea. But to open an old wound, what about flagging students?

I don’t like the idea of withholding payment for suspicion of fraud.
- First there should very, but very clear policies as to what would constitute fraud.
- Second there should be some guidelines to prevent this fraud from happening. And not penalizing it by withholding payment. Prevention is what we need.

Ron…..so much passion put into words. Expressive and full of FIRE. You certainly woke us up!

This topic is really on FIRE!!!
Those words above are wonderful suggestions. In the first place, there should be clear rules and policies for this superpass for both teachers and students. I do agree with Enrique that witholding payment for suspicion fraud is not a good idea. Edufire has the right to investigate this. I am new here in edufire and i want to be part of this wonderful site. The success of it is also our success as teachers. Anywhere, bad apples are always present. This is uncontrolable so as much as possible this should be stop before it can ruin the whole site. So be sure you are picking the bad apples…..Accusing without evidence is truly painful especially ….. I believe as teachers, we do not work only for money but for the accomplishments we made for our students….
There are many ways to stop and caught those who are just taking for granted. IP address is another one. …. I hope this will be resolve asap!!!

Thanks guys for the comments. A couple of quick follow-ups:

1 – With a new program like SuperPass we couldn’t possibly think of all the edge cases. For example, we never dreamed that we’d have teachers creating overlapping classes where they were literally trying to get paid for being in two places at the same time. We’re only withholding (temporarily in some cases) SuperPass payments in circumstances where it is fairly obvious to us that something unusual was happening. We did have a delay this month in particular because there were multiple instances but should have everyone (or almost everyone) paid shortly.

2 – I’d love to write a complete list of rules for SuperPass but my guess is that this will be an evolving process. For instance, we recently instituted the 45 minute limit because of teachers creating super short classes which we did not anticipate happening when we launched SuperPass. 52 of you have already voted to change that limit. And we’re listening. But we also want to make sure that everyone understands the ramifications of what different changes mean. For instance, if we dropped the limit to 30 minutes but then also had to drop the SuperPass payment by 40% to make the numbers work (not saying we would do that, purely a hypothetical) would people still want this? Those are the kinds of decisions we’re facing.

Thanks everyone for the feedback and keep it coming. We’re listening!

I am not sure if I’m allowed to reply on your posts here. I’m only a student here, not a teacher. So please forgive me for posting.

I am new here and hoping to stay longer. I am still observing the eduFire’s environment and the behaviour of the people in this site. Reading forums is a big help for me to get to know more of this site. I like eduFire and I am happy here. I feel so blessed when I found this site. One of my dreams is to learn other languages. It’s not easy considering my place and my present situation. But eduFire makes it possible. There are lot of different language classes offered in this site.

Recently, I enrolled to a free Spanish class here and the first time I attended the class it was really awesome so I’m excited for our next class. And because of that I decided to get a debit card for me to have an account on paypal to be able to enrolled on paid class and maybe avail SuperPass. But after reading your posts here, it made me feel sad in knowing that there are people doing this “cheating” activities.

I am hoping that eduFire will stay for the long run, become bigger and better and have a community that has a healthy “give-and-take” relationship. And as a student, I want and hope to help to prevent/stop this “cheaters” in destroying this wonderful site and in dragging down the great teachers here who are diligently share their knowledge for students seeking good education.

As what as Mr. Ron Smith says, me too, will stand up and report those who break the rules.

Kira, of course you’re allowed to post and always feel free to do so.

Get ‘em Ron!!!
@Jon… I am not in favor of cutting class time below 45 minutes. If a teacher can’t find enough information to fill 45 minutes maybe the teacher should look at the class structure and rework it. It is up to the teacher to give a quality presentation and to have interaction with the students. 45minutes is reasonable… by the time the introductions, polls, explanations and presentations are done you are probably at 35 minutes. Create an exercise or a Q&A or some backup in case you have students who are super quiet. Something that the time for it is elastic so that it can run long or short depending on what is happening with your group.
From a marketing standpoint – if a student comes on and takes a number of inferior “short” superpass classes ….. that doesn’t give them a taste for the real site. It is just a cheap imitation and they go away thinking that they don’t want to do the superpass or the site because it’s is inferior. If they get a quality class of 45 min or more they will be happy to pay again the next month and the next. The point I think of the Superpass is to attract people to become repeat students. That will come if they receive Quality not just Quantity.
I know that some of the people are taking free classes or super pass classes so they can listen to English and that’s valid but that makes it imperative that the teacher make the class of value to the english speaking students so they will have someone to interact with.
I am sure that much thought went into the creation of the Superpass structure and i think it can work… Rather than creating rules that you have to then police I suggest that there be some sort of a software control that will help to catch the offenders. it’s growing pains of the system so we all have to be patient.
I DO feel that payment should be withheld if fraud is suspected. Until it is sorted out. If the teacher is on the up and Up there should be no problem. The rules seem rather clear to me…. classes of 45 minutes or more. 1 class at a time, Present quality material, be a REAL teacher. how hard is it!!
It’s not rocket science it’s common sense…
pardon my indignation but sometimes it just seems ……
It’s a great site and I agree with Ron… I feel like it is a place that I am a part of not just checking in… Thank you Jon for doing your BEST.

Hi to all,
Its unfortunate that some ugly (teachers?) are using superpass for their selfish needs. NO one will say bad if teachers genuinely earn money by taking superclasses with min. time.

I request EDUFIRE to ban such teachers and trace IP address to block that forever.

I wish to build my thoughts about this discussion from Mr. Enrique whom he mentioned that “Prevention is what we need”. I would take it from a management concept of employing “Prevention rather than Correction”. I am not so sure if these ideas I will be mentioning were taken into consideration already by Edufire.

On Overlapping:

A control mechanism may be utilized by having a validation during posting of classes that there should be no two or multiple classes to be allowed on the same time slot (i.e. 45min. to 1 hr. class) for a single tutor. If this routine validation is not available within the current system that Edufire is using, then temporarily Edufire may resort to manual validation while they are enhancing the system. Meaning, when a tutor will post a class it has to be validated and approved first by a designated authority from Edufire to ensure that there is really no overlapping that will take place. But the turn around time for the approval has to be taken into consideration. Validation should be short and with quick response to the tutor.

On 5 min. classes:

Edufire can make it as a default to record all sessions or classes and not to make it as an option. Afterwhich it is recorded, a logical manual random check can be done by a designated Edufire authority for every tutor on every 5 min. segment of the recordings and when pattern of non-compliance or irregularities has been identified then further inquiry can be conducted. Although this has to be handled with utmost care because there could be tutors who are employing Problem Based Learning (PBL) or experiential learning wherein students are asked to cross reference or research and bring back the output to the classroom.

The abovementioned suggestions are just ideas that can lay the foundation in coming up with a much better idea.

I like the idea of a manditory recording session.

i used to teach Arabic in berlitz school of languages in New York city. and all the teachers were monitored during the class, i did not mind and i do not mind being monitored during class. if that solve the problem, let us do it.

Dr. Aldrin, what a wonderful idea. I like your suggestions. A class schedule validation (to avoid overlapping classes). Sometimes teachers are not aware of the class they posted have the exact time of their other previous class (accidents do happen). They are teachers – they are the heart and soul of learning, surely they don’t have a habit of MONEY EXTORTION. I still believe in the goodness of the people.

Aubrey had mentioned this….“Accusing without evidence is truly painful especially …… I believe as teachers, we do not work only for money but for the accomplishments we made for our students….”

I agree with her….perhaps they didn’t do it intentionally or whatever…..

Dr. Aldrin and I agreed with Enrique that PREVENTION is what we need.

The White Prince…..though your suggestion has good merit…..but quite frankly I don’t want to be monitored….because it is very suspicious on my part and quite rattling.