Native or non-native?

Hi everyone!

I wanted to talk with you about “native-speaker being” and teaching the native language. Nowadays, there is a kind of fashion for native language teachers. Nobody really cares, if the person knows how to teach but the most important thing is the origin. By that, so many great, passionate and so well educated teachers are almost discriminated because they don’t have the blood of the language they teach! On the other hand, there is more and more people who have roots in a country and a language but learn it later and their level of qualifications can be really various. But they CAN call themselves native speakers.

I used to have many native speaker teachers in German and English and, honestly, I prefer non-native ones. As soon as I know they have a good education background and know the language on the professional level as well as know how to teach it, I know I am in good hands.

Coming to the US I went to a college for some English classes. The teacher was American – native speaker. The woman apparently finished some coursework to be able to teach on a college (she was a former United Airlines agent..) and I don’t even mind the fact that she wasn’t even trying to speak little bit more distinctly (let it be the “real” language…) but she just killed me when for somebody’s’ question: what is the difference between the sound of words: “meet” and “meat” (it was only TOLD in the classroom, nobody knew how it looks like and certainly not the person who was asking) she spelled it in English really fast. Something like: “meet” you spell em, e, e, tee and meat em, e, a, tee"!
Of course, nobody understood it and some people were even more confused than on the beginning. Everybody who learns English as a foreign language knows that the spelling is really hard for us!!!!
Besides, she never wrote anything on the board, was explaining things through fast and not clear spelling like that one etc. I changed the teacher to a Hindi woman. She was studying English studies in India and even if she had a little accent, she was great! She knew exactly how to approach us and how to explain things. And we are not kids anymore, and they are lying to us (e.g. famous Rosetta…) that we will acquire a language the same way as we learned our first language!

Except of this experience I had many more very similar or even worse!

I meet so many potential students who after I tell them about my credentials, experience, references etc. they can only say: so you are not from Germany..? And it kills me every time… Don’t get me wrong, I am proud of being Polish but sometimes I really wish I could put some German blood in my vain if it would be possible…

And what do you think? Do you think native speakers are the best language teachers? What exepriences do you have???? Talk to me!

Hello again, Iwona,

I also agree that it really doesn’t matter whether you are a native speaker or not. What truly matters is that you know the language and how to teach it. There are so many tutors at this site, for example, that are and aren’t natives. Some are more experienced and know the language they teach extremely well, whether they are native or not. Some are great teachers even though they don’t have the years of experience in teaching. I have had native teachers with great credentials in my Spanish classes in college, but they weren’t my best teachers, necessarily. They still didn’t do a great job of explaining all the terms they used. I had to acquire that for myself after many years of study. I think that any tutor that is creative and knows how to teach the language, as well as, connect with their students, would be worthy either way. “You go girl!”

Hi Candy,

I am Jean-marie, a native speaker in French registered on the site.
I read your post and Ivona’s too, and I must say that I totally agree with you when you say that the origin of the teacher doesn’t really matter as long as he really knows the language he wants to teach, and how to arouse the student’s interest. It is not because a teacher is a native from such or such country that he/she automatically is the best person to take care of a student. Of course, if he/she is a native and a good tutor with sound experience, that is perfect !.
A teacher certainly knows how to speak his own mother tongue, that seems obvious, but perhaps he is not a good teacher because he doesn’t know how to meet the student’s expectations.
A good teacher is someone who is an excellent communicator and has strong teaching skills.
Good day to all !

Jean-marie

I agree too. A good teacher is passionate about helping people succeed. You can only teach what you know, so you have to have some knowledge of the language, but you don’t have to know everything or be a native speaker. Teaching is really an art that requires patience and I think a little humility :)

I agree with you. I have found from experience that it is better to have a non-native speaker that knows how to teach a language well, rather than learn from a native speaker that does not know how to teach.

A similar idea also applies to any subject of learning. It is better to learn from someone who has the ability and skill to teach rather than from someone who may be an expert in his field but can’t teach. For example in college I had an accounting professor who was a brilliant CPA but just couldn’t teach. On the other hand I had a biology professor who never practiced his profession outside of school as he began to teach straight out of college, yet his passion for the sciences and his clear enjoyment for imparting knowledge on to his students made him an outstanding lecturer. He was one of those teachers whose class you simply didn’t want to miss even when you were feeling sick.

In other words I would prefer a non-native speaker that has the passion and skill to teach rather than learn from a native speaker that may be by birth an “expert” on his/her language but does not posses such skills.

In addition to that most non-native speakers are by necessity forced to learn the new language better than the native speaker who usually takes his language for granted.

Antonio,

I think you really hit it – on every point. English is my first language but I wouldn’t want me for a teacher!

I definitely agree that it’s often better to have a non-native speaker as a teacher. When I teach Spanish, I know exactly what kinds of problems an English speaker will encounter when learning the language. I’ve spent years studying it myself, and I have developed little tricks to overcome some of the obstacles.
When I teach English, I have to stop and think about why this concept is so difficult. After all, I’ve known this since I was five years old!

Though I agree with everybody here. There is a group of tutors that are being left out here, that is professional tutors that are also native speakers. I have taught many Italian students English where their previous “professional” tutor, even at University level has taught them correct grammatical English, but this is not always “real” English that we speak in England. Little things like phrases, terminology etc. Unless you’re a native, you probably won’t know it. In England when I was at school it was a common joke about the French they taught in our schools, you can get really good at it, then you went to France and soon realised that they don’t speak British ‘High School’ French, they spoke real French. lol

So it isn’t just a case of a flat advantage of having a non-native tutor. Of course, in an ideal world your tutor would be a professional and a native.

I am not a tutor, but I want to point out that for me I wouldn’t really care if the tutor is native or not if I was a beginning student with a language. However with Spanish, I know it well enough that I really prefer a native speaker. I really want to start learning the subtle things that I think are best learned from a native speaker. It would help me if the tutors listed what levels they prefer to teach so that I could choose the right one for my skill level. This being said, I didn’t sign up at a tutor for English or Spanish because I would be a terrible tutor regardless of my native/non-native status! :)

I agree with Liz. For me I think I prefer a non-native speaker to help me learn the language as I think they understand my needs a little better and they go slow enough for my learning curve. Like Liz I’m fluent in English (a native speaker) but don’t think I would be a great tutor.

I agree with Liz too that a native speaker knows subtle things. Sure for a beginner, it doesn’t make that much difference if the tutor is a native or not, unless they instill ‘bad habits’ in the student that are then later hard to correct. Like I said in my previous post, I’ve encountered countless students that have been taught ‘text book’ English or Italian by a non-native and that isn’t the same as the “real” language that we speak in England or Italy. Having said that, I’m sure there are very good non-native tutors too. I’m just in the unique position of literally being bilingual from birth.

I think the point here is that yes, just because you’re a native it doesn’t mean you can teach you’re native language. That’s to do with whether you’re a good tutor or not. If you’re a good and natural tutor it doesn’t matter whether you’re teaching your native language, another language, or teaching somebody how to cook. You should always anticipate and instinctively know what potential problems your students may have.

I prefer to learn with non-natives. If I have learning goals, then I work with a non-native who has been in my boat before.

If I don’t have specific learning goals and just want to build fluency, I’ll find a native speaker to whom I can offer English practice if they would like it.

I think depending on the level of the student being tutored, competent native-speaking tutors do have an edge over competent non-native speakers. Idiomatic speech is very difficult to learn to use naturally, as are numerous verb forms, not to mention ties to the culture that go way beyond the mere linguistic, and while many non-native tutors are very capable, there is always a difference. I taught English and communications for 6 years in Germany before taking up full-time employment as a communications expert and worked with many competent tutors both native and non-native, but at a certain level, you either need to live in a country where the language is spoken or get yourself a native-speaking tutor – or even better, partner ;). Despite being fluent in German and having spent many years in the country, I would not feel up to the job of tutoring above intermediate to upper intermediate.

So I’d say, as a rule of thumb:

• Beginners to Intermediate – Non-native speakers
• Intermediate to Upper Intermediate – Native or non-native speakers
• Upper Intermediate to Advanced – Native speakers

One other factor could be important, and that is speaking the native tongue of your students as well. Sometimes mnemonics can be determined that can really speed up the student’s understanding of the language being taught if you can also understand their language and offer comparative examples/rules.

That is my two cents. Feel free to disagree! :)

Your “two cents” are great. You wrote it out much better than I did since that is what I was trying to say in a not-so-clear nor thorough way.

Cheers Liz, actually, I really only rabbited on more than you did. :)

And what about native students :-)

Only a bad french joke…

So very true! I’ve often thought native speakers are in serious need of tutoring too! Actually, on a serious note, a niche market I identified and you may also consider leveraging is the fact that with English as the lingua franca of the business world, many native speakers who do not speak a second language are in desperate need of being taught how to speak to non-native groups. Too much idiomatic speech, speaking too rapidly, slurring words, mumbling etc. When offering services to businesses, this may also be an interesting selling point.

I agree with Marco about one thing: it’s as discriminating to say that native speakers are generally bad teachers as to say that non-native speakers are bad teachers! :) I’m not just saying it because I’m Russian and I teach Russian. I taught English, which isn’t my native language, for years, and I suffered a lot from the discrimination concerning non-native speakers. I remember once a woman in France called me about my ad. When she heard I had an accent, she asked me if I was English. I told her I was Russian, so she said in a shocked voice: “You’re Russian and you teach English?” Then she said it wasn’t what she was looking for. Apperently, the French teaching English don’t shock her but the Russian do. So I’ll be the last person to say that non-native speakers don’t make good teachers. :)

However, there’re a lot of native speakers that have the right training and the experience to teach their own language. If you have a native speaker for a teacher, it doesn’t necessarily mean they won’t prepare lessons, won’t be able to explain to you any grammar or vocabulary and the lesson will be just about coversation without any learning goals! Some of you feel that native speakers aren’t capable of teaching beginners: I totally disagree. I have lots of beginners among my students of Russian, I don’t see why they would be better off with a non-native speaker. At the beginning I use English a lot during the lesson to explain and to translate, and then gradually I use more and more Russian as their confidence grows. If there’s a problem, I can always switch to English. Of course, being a native speaker doesn’t automatically make of you a good teacher, that goes without saying. Actually, the question isn’t so much about being a native speaker or not, it’s about being a professional.

Professionalism is the first priority, but a professional, educated native speaker will inevitably be able to offer demanding near-native students more than a professional, educated non-native speaker. There’s no way around it. Being a native speaker means that the language is coded at the level of your intellectual DNA, not as an enhancement to existing structures.

As far as tutoring beginners/intermediates goes, my experience is simply that non-native speaking tutors are more patient and enjoy tutoring beginners more than native speakers tend to do. This was certainly the case for myself too. Whether they are more or less capable is not really a question. I knew many German tutors who tutored English, and most of them preferred to teach beginners or intermediates. Once a student begins to get close to the level of their tutor, the effectiveness of the lessons is bound to decrease. So the distribution in terms of preference and effectiveness in my opinion, will be as I described above, exceptions granted.

This is not discrimination, simply the result of many years of observation and thought on the topic. For myself now learning Italian as a beginner, I’m fine with a native or non-native speaker, but I know once I reach a certain level, I’m going to be looking for a native-speaking tutor – assuming I get to such a level!

For the record and to throw it in the mix, I’m native in English and Italian and I love teaching absolute beginners! Often prefer it.

I get frustrated for my cousins in Italy (and students from Italy) learning English from their non-native tutors and they get bad habits instilled in them from the beginning. Little things either pronounciation or plainly wrong language rules, once you teach a beginner something they get used to it, then they come to me and then find it very hard to correct the years of learning it wrong. It’s a diffuculty that could have been avoided.

So you’re right Sean, professionalism is absolutely everything. I’m just suprised you’ve encountered tutors getting impatient with students at any level! Isn’t that like a mechanic that doesn’t like oil? They should get another hobby or job! :)

It’s also nice when beginners who started learning a language with you become Intermediate students and can have real conversations. I feel so proud about them because they’ve made such progress. It’s more difficult to see the results of your work with the students who were already fluent when they arrived. :)

Marco, I’m sorry to hear about your rellies and friends in Italy suffering under poor tuition. I actually met a young French bloke on the train to Paris who’d had 7 years of English at school and yet spoke with an incredibly strong French accent and poor grammar. He said the teachers were not really even interested because they didn’t like English. There’s a motivated teaching ethic for you! Unfortnately, my time in Paris supported that view!

Elena, I agree completely. It is a real pleasure to see students really making progress, and the further along you get the more subtle the improvements.

My observations are by no means universal rules, but simply observations and generalizations that I found largely valid according to my experience. Of course there are plenty of native-speaking tutors who really enjoy tutoring beginners, like yourself and Marco, but in Germany at least, I found non-native-speaking tutors were more often than not the ones laying the foundations, but in the end, everyone’s going to know plenty of exceptions, and as I wrote, it’s my two cents and little more. :)

Nice forum though. A lot of experience to share!

Your two cents are no more than mine, Sean :). That’s the purpose of this forum which is great.

Shame about the poor chap on the train. I feel for these people. I also wonder about his teachers doing something they clearly didn’t enjoy!?

Hey maybe we should put our cents together and donate it to them to help them get a career they enjoy? lol

My best,
Marco :)

I don’t know why they were teaching a language they clearly did not enjoy either!? But it’s a really nice forum to exchange ideas among other tutors and students. Something else I always found teaching was the fact that tutors can learn at least as much from their students as their students from them if they are open. I certainly gained a wealth information and insight from my students.

You’re absolutely right, Sean, being open is everything. It really does illustrate, ‘live and learn’.